Great stuff. I think we need to start at the intellectually honest fact that the Industrial Revolution changed how the work / home / parenting triad effected an integrated and wholistic family life. The whole setup we have is a slightly new phenomenon! Haha I loved finally going through Mary Harrington’s book last week, as she explains pretty matter of factly that it’s…. normal… for many mothers to want to be with their young kids! Things have just gotten so complicated, but I’m glad we are able with technology to integrate some types of work back into the home. Bachiochi’s paper I shared in this week’s newsletter is so good on this concept. We just all really need to learn some history and keep doing our best. 🤍
Yes for sure—all great stuff, and while those of us inclined to learn and ponder do that I think we also need a bold cultural shift that reaches everyone no matter their inclination to nerd out about these things. I’ll check out Erika’s paper—thanks! I’m not great at keeping up w my reading here.
Thanks for making space for, and opening this conversation. It’s one my friends and I have often and are constantly searching for the in-between. I haven’t read One Beautiful Dream, I’m going to suggest it to my artist/mother book club.
I’m always glad to know other women are feeling and talking about this too. I’ll enter your name to win the book! Your artist/mother book club sounds amazing! Tell us more!
My baby boomer mother retired after a decade of teaching public school to have and raise her own children, and ended up teaching us at home. For several years in my childhood, she took a part-time assistant librarian position, and she took us to work with her. We would do our schoolwork, or quietly play with toys we brought, or browse the bookshelves. None of the patrons seemed concerned that we were there.
When I was taking an upgrade course in maternal-child care, there was another nurse also taking the course while on a year's maternal leave and she brought her infant to the class. The instructor was very supportive, even taking care of the child while the mother wrote her final exam. I thought at the time, this is how it should be - we need to rethink the workplace environment to support mothers who work.
YES!! Making work environments more friendly for mothers is a huge part of what needs to happen! A friend's partner in her non-profit always brought her young children to meetings. My friend, who was previously very much in the corporate world, said to me: "At first I thought it was super unprofessional. Then, I was like wait, this is feminist! This is what women need!"
My grandmother was a 50's homemaker. When her kids went off to school she got a job at the local school district, she worked there for almost 40 years even though she "wasted" important career years. They're only wasted in our weird short term conception of our career lives. In reality we live very long career lives. She made such an impact with her career that she was inducted into the schools hall of fame and they threw an entire ceremony dedicated to her. A common modern misconception about the 50's homemaker role is that those women only did that for their entire lives. That's not true especially for working class families
Absolutely to all you said! More important nuance that gets missed in our overly simplistic ideas about motherhood and paid work! Thank you for commenting
I’ve had several women in my church ask how I “manage” to have time for all that I do (not only kids & homeschooling, but writing and several hobbies) with the implication I’m not being a “good” wife and mother if I have time for all these other things. I’m just…so tired that it seems like it always has to be one or the other.
Ugh, yes. My guess is that there's a subtle jealousy there, like "I didn't know that was an option." The idea of what it looks like to be a good Christian wife/mother (ie total dedication to others and denial of self) is so strong. This is exactly what I'm talking about in this post; thanks for sharing.
YES, thank you for this! You expressed perfectly what I've been thinking, that this binary is getting us nowhere. One gaping hole in the debate of SAHM vs mom with a job is... what type of job are we talking about? Because "a job" can mean WILDLY different things. It can be full-time or it can be part-time. It can be on site or remote. You can teach at the local primary school or you can work as a war reporter, and I'm sure we'll all agree that both of these are indeed jobs but do not allow the same prioritizing of family life. It's just nuts that this isn't taken into account.
I chose a job (teaching) where I can spend lots of time with my family, notably on holidays, and where having a kid didn't slow down my career (because it's pretty slow anyway). And I will always fight against a system in which a woman is dissuaded from having kids in order to be successful, or told that it's perfectly normal to freeze her eggs so she can climb the corporate ladder then try for kids at 45, or sold the lie that you can leave young children with a nanny six days a week from 8am to 7pm without any bonding issues. But as you said so well, drawing a line in the sand and telling women that they must choose one side or the other is just more toxic polarization.
I loved her Blue Flame book, though I think it was highly derivative from One Beautiful Dream (mostly leaning into that one aspect she already talked about) but I loved it, nonetheless.
It was for sure, but a totally different format/genre so it didn't bother me. The idea that one can pursue what lights one up can't be said enough as far as I'm concerned!
I think it was great in reminding me that no, not everyone gets jazzed and totally enlivened by the same things I do…… not a novel concept but I think it is SO important to pay attention to those “flames”! One might think these things that make you come alive are totally normal and commonplace, and aren’t really anything. I’ve learned they totally ARE and other people need our gifts. How to name and steward those aspects of who we are, and what we have to offer…. might take some learning, but we weren’t made who we are for no purpose.
Great stuff. I think we need to start at the intellectually honest fact that the Industrial Revolution changed how the work / home / parenting triad effected an integrated and wholistic family life. The whole setup we have is a slightly new phenomenon! Haha I loved finally going through Mary Harrington’s book last week, as she explains pretty matter of factly that it’s…. normal… for many mothers to want to be with their young kids! Things have just gotten so complicated, but I’m glad we are able with technology to integrate some types of work back into the home. Bachiochi’s paper I shared in this week’s newsletter is so good on this concept. We just all really need to learn some history and keep doing our best. 🤍
Yes for sure—all great stuff, and while those of us inclined to learn and ponder do that I think we also need a bold cultural shift that reaches everyone no matter their inclination to nerd out about these things. I’ll check out Erika’s paper—thanks! I’m not great at keeping up w my reading here.
Ha I meant all great stuff that you said, wasn’t reiterating your comment about my post lol
For sure. It’s hard to know how to even begin with the bold cultural shifts! But hard agree there.
I think it's narrative shifts at the end of the day! Have you seen the work of Neha Ruch?
Have not!
I'd love to read One Beautiful Dream! I have her Blue Flame book, and it's fabulous.
Awesome, I'll drop your name in! Yes, I love that book. I regularly pick it up and read a chapter!
One Beautiful Dream is on my TBR list! Thanks for exploring the nuances in this post.
I’ll put your name in! You’re so welcome - thank you for reading.
Thanks for making space for, and opening this conversation. It’s one my friends and I have often and are constantly searching for the in-between. I haven’t read One Beautiful Dream, I’m going to suggest it to my artist/mother book club.
I’m always glad to know other women are feeling and talking about this too. I’ll enter your name to win the book! Your artist/mother book club sounds amazing! Tell us more!
Beautiful how you made space for your children and writing. Both feel like a calling to me too.
My baby boomer mother retired after a decade of teaching public school to have and raise her own children, and ended up teaching us at home. For several years in my childhood, she took a part-time assistant librarian position, and she took us to work with her. We would do our schoolwork, or quietly play with toys we brought, or browse the bookshelves. None of the patrons seemed concerned that we were there.
When I was taking an upgrade course in maternal-child care, there was another nurse also taking the course while on a year's maternal leave and she brought her infant to the class. The instructor was very supportive, even taking care of the child while the mother wrote her final exam. I thought at the time, this is how it should be - we need to rethink the workplace environment to support mothers who work.
YES!! Making work environments more friendly for mothers is a huge part of what needs to happen! A friend's partner in her non-profit always brought her young children to meetings. My friend, who was previously very much in the corporate world, said to me: "At first I thought it was super unprofessional. Then, I was like wait, this is feminist! This is what women need!"
Thank you for sharing all that; so inspiring.
My grandmother was a 50's homemaker. When her kids went off to school she got a job at the local school district, she worked there for almost 40 years even though she "wasted" important career years. They're only wasted in our weird short term conception of our career lives. In reality we live very long career lives. She made such an impact with her career that she was inducted into the schools hall of fame and they threw an entire ceremony dedicated to her. A common modern misconception about the 50's homemaker role is that those women only did that for their entire lives. That's not true especially for working class families
Absolutely to all you said! More important nuance that gets missed in our overly simplistic ideas about motherhood and paid work! Thank you for commenting
I would love to be entered for One Beautiful Dream!
You got it!
I would love to read One Beautiful Dream!
One Beautiful Dream sounds amazing!
I’ve had several women in my church ask how I “manage” to have time for all that I do (not only kids & homeschooling, but writing and several hobbies) with the implication I’m not being a “good” wife and mother if I have time for all these other things. I’m just…so tired that it seems like it always has to be one or the other.
Ugh, yes. My guess is that there's a subtle jealousy there, like "I didn't know that was an option." The idea of what it looks like to be a good Christian wife/mother (ie total dedication to others and denial of self) is so strong. This is exactly what I'm talking about in this post; thanks for sharing.
And I'll put your name in for the book :)
YES, thank you for this! You expressed perfectly what I've been thinking, that this binary is getting us nowhere. One gaping hole in the debate of SAHM vs mom with a job is... what type of job are we talking about? Because "a job" can mean WILDLY different things. It can be full-time or it can be part-time. It can be on site or remote. You can teach at the local primary school or you can work as a war reporter, and I'm sure we'll all agree that both of these are indeed jobs but do not allow the same prioritizing of family life. It's just nuts that this isn't taken into account.
I chose a job (teaching) where I can spend lots of time with my family, notably on holidays, and where having a kid didn't slow down my career (because it's pretty slow anyway). And I will always fight against a system in which a woman is dissuaded from having kids in order to be successful, or told that it's perfectly normal to freeze her eggs so she can climb the corporate ladder then try for kids at 45, or sold the lie that you can leave young children with a nanny six days a week from 8am to 7pm without any bonding issues. But as you said so well, drawing a line in the sand and telling women that they must choose one side or the other is just more toxic polarization.
Absolutely. Well-said. Thanks for reading and I'm always happy to hear from other women who see this problem!
Also I LOVED “One Beautiful Dream”
Yay! Have you read her other two books? I love her so much
I loved her Blue Flame book, though I think it was highly derivative from One Beautiful Dream (mostly leaning into that one aspect she already talked about) but I loved it, nonetheless.
It was for sure, but a totally different format/genre so it didn't bother me. The idea that one can pursue what lights one up can't be said enough as far as I'm concerned!
I think it was great in reminding me that no, not everyone gets jazzed and totally enlivened by the same things I do…… not a novel concept but I think it is SO important to pay attention to those “flames”! One might think these things that make you come alive are totally normal and commonplace, and aren’t really anything. I’ve learned they totally ARE and other people need our gifts. How to name and steward those aspects of who we are, and what we have to offer…. might take some learning, but we weren’t made who we are for no purpose.
Yes!!!!
It’s definitely a concept that has stuck with me. Gosh, I miss her after being away from Instagram. 😂
I don't really follow her there much! Do you listen to her podcast? It's great.