I loved this!!! I have also been thinking so much about praise since reading Hunt, Gather, Parent. In indigenous cultures, parents don't praise their children AT ALL. Instead, they acknowledge their contributions to the family. This actually creates much more intrinsic motivation in children to be helpful and kind. I love how the author borrows a term from some other researchers, calling our culture "WEIRD:" "Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic." It's an amazing book and dovetails with a lot of what you wrote here.
Really enjoyed your insight about how our shallow, performative acts of parenting plays into/reinforces our need for validation.
Yes I’ve read some of that book! Great ideas. I always try to say “thank you” when the kids help around the house instead of “good job.” (Comes out so easily🤦🏽♀️) Absolutely it increases motivation, but more importantly (for me at least) it doesn’t make them feel like they’re being constantly evaluated. My kids’ long-term mental health is a big priority for me in parenting.
Yeah I’ve heard that term! It’s definitely weird the way we do many things!😄
This has been an issue for us - a family member constantly saying "good girl!" with the same voice and energy she uses to praise her dog, about everyyyyything my daughter does. I can't stand it. I'm not interested in raising my daughter to be obedient or compliant. It feels like a generational thing, though, and I'm not really sure how to handle it.
Ugh. It’s definitely has a generational component but also I’ve seen it plenty from younger people too. What has helped to reduce comments like this for me is just confidently modeling the way I parent. My family of origin and extended family has adjusted the way they interact with my kids simply through consistent observation of the way I interact with them. There’s still a lot of it around eating which drives me nuts, but I know that overall our influence is greater than theirs. If someone who spent a lot of time with them (like did consistent caregiving) was doing that it would be different for me. I would have a conversation about it.
As a child, I was praised for two things: moral goodness and academic achievement. It has taken most of my adult life to realize how much of my sense of self is wrapped up in others perceiving me as good and smart. Thanks to therapy and a lot of grace, I’m further along in the healing process, but man oh man I don’t want to pass this legacy onto my kids. When people ask me about my boys, I try to mention things that don’t have to do with accomplishment and have more to do with *who they are*, but it’s so tempting to brag about “successes” because that’s what most other parents do!
"It has taken most of my adult life to realize how much of my sense of self is wrapped up in others perceiving me as good and smart" - sometimes I think we're the same person, Christina;)
I see you in that work with your kids, and it is so hard to do it differently.
Yes, I think we are definitely kindred spirits in many ways—which is why so much of your writing really resonates with me. It’s comforting to know that I’m not alone!
Thanks Kate! Ah, awesome re: the book club! Is there here on Substack or in person?
Oh, that's super cool. I read his work early in my education career (and we're starting Catechesis of the Good Shepherd in our parishes in a few weeks - so excited). Thx for reading!
It’s so interesting how differently the same words can be interpreted or intended! I can’t stop myself from telling my kids “you’re so good” and “you’re so beautiful” on repeat, because I really do just feel a lot of wonder and awe at their beauty and the goodness of their being. Especially with my toddler (baby number three), I just find (almost) everything she does delightful. She’s learning words now, and I feel so much joy at her joy when she triumphantly pokes me in the nose and says “NOSE!!”
So I guess all of that is to say - I’m not sure I’m convinced by the idea that praising our children necessarily communicates to them that their worth is dependent upon their effort or that love must be earned.
Hi Serena! Thanks for sharing how this landed for you. It's absolutely nuanced! This was an attempt to analyze our tendencies at a macro level, not to language police or make it seem like it's harmful to say anything positive to our kids ever. I enjoy my kids so much, too - I know what you mean!
I'll be writing more about this! (and it's obviously okay if you remain unconvinced :))
I have lots of thoughts! We purposefully don’t mention baby percentiles to some people. Their focus is just on the stats and wanting to brag and compare. It’s so pervasive!
Conversely: we have tried to focus on concentration, effort, or time when we do praise our kids. Ie did that take you a lot of effort? I can tell! Good work!
I come from a highly achieving family who set high expectations -- I actually think this served me quite well, but it's also because of my instinctively competitive personality. I probably am on the more 'strict' end of parenting, as in we stress manners, acting appropriately or removing yourself, etc. and of course so much of life is 'performance' BUT as you rightly point out when that becomes tied to giving and receiving love it gets... Messy.
My 3 year old is in a phase where she asks the opposite of whatever we say - so if I say, It's raining! she'll say, 'but what if it wasn't raining?' so I say, 'then it would be sunny,' and so on and so on. So one day she says, 'what if I'm not good?' and it gave me an opportunity to say, 'well you are Good, deep down, no matter what you do, and I love you, no matter what.'
So I think there can still be high expectations and clear boundaries but with an emphasis on unconditional love. I don't do this perfectly, but it's what we strive for. And when in doubt I look at the St. Catherine of Siena quote on our wall -- "You are rewarded not according to your work or your time, but according to the measure of your Love."
Love that convo with your daughter. Thanks for sharing that.
Absolutely there can still be expectations and boundaries with an emphasis on unconditional love!! This is what we strive for as well. There seems to be a false binary in our minds around this (as there are with so many things) - I once saw a reel that was talking about the "options" modern parents feel overwhelmed by... do we do this or that? One was "gentle parenting or discipline?" and I was like oooh, yeah, no. That's a total misconception, that gentle/respectful/conscious (whatever you want to call it) parenting means that you sort of just let your kids do whatever and don't have high expectations for them. It's all about how you hold them to those expectations. I do think many parents don't get this right and, in their efforts to parent in a non-harsh way, end up being permissive. I've written about this before and I should again, I think!
Thanks for weighing in; always enjoy hearing your thoughts Katie!
Good job! Jk. But seriously, this was great and gave me a lot to think about. I was wondering what your thoughts are on sticker charts to encourage a certain behavior. Our daughter doesn't eat much and we want her to eat more. When she eats more we've noticed she's less irritable and calmer. We recently implemented a sticker chart where she gets a sticker if she tries every food on her plate. She doesn't have to finish, just try it. It's been working really well, one week so far, and I do find myself praising her when she earns a sticker for trying each food on her plate. We don't want to do this forever but just wanted to get your thoughts on these reward strategies in the short term designed to encourage a certain action.
I just linked an article a few comments down that you might be interested in. Alfie Kohn is kind of intense but also... he's right. Still, do what you can while keeping his principles in mind.
Hi Mark, thx for your comment! I don't tend to get too wrapped up in ideologies, even if they're ones I mostly agree with. I think a reward strategy is fine in the short-term if it's encouraging a behavior that's difficult for the child and is also important. I will say that eating is SO fraught. Kids struggling with eating are often struggling in other ways (emotionally/relationally). We just finished an amazing book called Nourished all about this! You can page back and see some of the discussion in previous posts if you want. It really was an amazing book. Feeding kids is so hard, especially sensitive ones, and it was a book like no other, really getting to how intertwined eating is with relationship and attachment.
I'm reminded here of the book Hunt Gather Parent, which discusses three traditional parenting cultures in different parts of the world. One thing about the book that really stuck out to me was the fact that in all three cultures, parents basically never praise their kids. Even when those kids actually do a chore really well or something, the parent basically says nothing.
I have largely failed at doing this myself, despite wanting to emulate those cultures. But I think about it a lot and hopefully it has helped me temper my needless over praising for normal behaviors.
Someone else here in the comments brought that book up as well! It's a good intro to some of this thinking for sure! Thx for reading Jim and for your comment
Excellent piece. Very thought provoking. I'm realizing my people pleasing ways. I always felt like nothing I did was ever good enough for my parents. I'm participating in an upcoming online conference on how to build your platform/sell books without social media.
Yeah. I went off of Instagram after the retreat and it’s new layers of self-awareness🫠 I take regular breaks but this one has felt especially potent… awareness too of like what this is doing to us all… Glad you’re here x
I loved this!!! I have also been thinking so much about praise since reading Hunt, Gather, Parent. In indigenous cultures, parents don't praise their children AT ALL. Instead, they acknowledge their contributions to the family. This actually creates much more intrinsic motivation in children to be helpful and kind. I love how the author borrows a term from some other researchers, calling our culture "WEIRD:" "Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic." It's an amazing book and dovetails with a lot of what you wrote here.
Really enjoyed your insight about how our shallow, performative acts of parenting plays into/reinforces our need for validation.
Yes I’ve read some of that book! Great ideas. I always try to say “thank you” when the kids help around the house instead of “good job.” (Comes out so easily🤦🏽♀️) Absolutely it increases motivation, but more importantly (for me at least) it doesn’t make them feel like they’re being constantly evaluated. My kids’ long-term mental health is a big priority for me in parenting.
Yeah I’ve heard that term! It’s definitely weird the way we do many things!😄
This has been an issue for us - a family member constantly saying "good girl!" with the same voice and energy she uses to praise her dog, about everyyyyything my daughter does. I can't stand it. I'm not interested in raising my daughter to be obedient or compliant. It feels like a generational thing, though, and I'm not really sure how to handle it.
Ugh. It’s definitely has a generational component but also I’ve seen it plenty from younger people too. What has helped to reduce comments like this for me is just confidently modeling the way I parent. My family of origin and extended family has adjusted the way they interact with my kids simply through consistent observation of the way I interact with them. There’s still a lot of it around eating which drives me nuts, but I know that overall our influence is greater than theirs. If someone who spent a lot of time with them (like did consistent caregiving) was doing that it would be different for me. I would have a conversation about it.
As a child, I was praised for two things: moral goodness and academic achievement. It has taken most of my adult life to realize how much of my sense of self is wrapped up in others perceiving me as good and smart. Thanks to therapy and a lot of grace, I’m further along in the healing process, but man oh man I don’t want to pass this legacy onto my kids. When people ask me about my boys, I try to mention things that don’t have to do with accomplishment and have more to do with *who they are*, but it’s so tempting to brag about “successes” because that’s what most other parents do!
"It has taken most of my adult life to realize how much of my sense of self is wrapped up in others perceiving me as good and smart" - sometimes I think we're the same person, Christina;)
I see you in that work with your kids, and it is so hard to do it differently.
Yes, I think we are definitely kindred spirits in many ways—which is why so much of your writing really resonates with me. It’s comforting to know that I’m not alone!
Love this.
I'm running a book club next month (which is suddenly next week!) on The Montessori Toddler, so I've been sitting with very similar thoughts.
Alfie Kohn's article "Five Reasons to Stop Saying 'Good Job'" was assigned reading for my Catechesis of the Good Shepherd formation.
Thanks Kate! Ah, awesome re: the book club! Is there here on Substack or in person?
Oh, that's super cool. I read his work early in my education career (and we're starting Catechesis of the Good Shepherd in our parishes in a few weeks - so excited). Thx for reading!
Linking the article here for anyone interested: https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/five-reasons-stop-saying-good-job/
Ok but if I say “excellent” instead of “good job”???? 🤣
Then you're fine. You're doing it right. :D
😂
It’s so interesting how differently the same words can be interpreted or intended! I can’t stop myself from telling my kids “you’re so good” and “you’re so beautiful” on repeat, because I really do just feel a lot of wonder and awe at their beauty and the goodness of their being. Especially with my toddler (baby number three), I just find (almost) everything she does delightful. She’s learning words now, and I feel so much joy at her joy when she triumphantly pokes me in the nose and says “NOSE!!”
So I guess all of that is to say - I’m not sure I’m convinced by the idea that praising our children necessarily communicates to them that their worth is dependent upon their effort or that love must be earned.
Hi Serena! Thanks for sharing how this landed for you. It's absolutely nuanced! This was an attempt to analyze our tendencies at a macro level, not to language police or make it seem like it's harmful to say anything positive to our kids ever. I enjoy my kids so much, too - I know what you mean!
I'll be writing more about this! (and it's obviously okay if you remain unconvinced :))
I have lots of thoughts! We purposefully don’t mention baby percentiles to some people. Their focus is just on the stats and wanting to brag and compare. It’s so pervasive!
Conversely: we have tried to focus on concentration, effort, or time when we do praise our kids. Ie did that take you a lot of effort? I can tell! Good work!
I come from a highly achieving family who set high expectations -- I actually think this served me quite well, but it's also because of my instinctively competitive personality. I probably am on the more 'strict' end of parenting, as in we stress manners, acting appropriately or removing yourself, etc. and of course so much of life is 'performance' BUT as you rightly point out when that becomes tied to giving and receiving love it gets... Messy.
My 3 year old is in a phase where she asks the opposite of whatever we say - so if I say, It's raining! she'll say, 'but what if it wasn't raining?' so I say, 'then it would be sunny,' and so on and so on. So one day she says, 'what if I'm not good?' and it gave me an opportunity to say, 'well you are Good, deep down, no matter what you do, and I love you, no matter what.'
So I think there can still be high expectations and clear boundaries but with an emphasis on unconditional love. I don't do this perfectly, but it's what we strive for. And when in doubt I look at the St. Catherine of Siena quote on our wall -- "You are rewarded not according to your work or your time, but according to the measure of your Love."
Great thoughts, Amber!
Love that convo with your daughter. Thanks for sharing that.
Absolutely there can still be expectations and boundaries with an emphasis on unconditional love!! This is what we strive for as well. There seems to be a false binary in our minds around this (as there are with so many things) - I once saw a reel that was talking about the "options" modern parents feel overwhelmed by... do we do this or that? One was "gentle parenting or discipline?" and I was like oooh, yeah, no. That's a total misconception, that gentle/respectful/conscious (whatever you want to call it) parenting means that you sort of just let your kids do whatever and don't have high expectations for them. It's all about how you hold them to those expectations. I do think many parents don't get this right and, in their efforts to parent in a non-harsh way, end up being permissive. I've written about this before and I should again, I think!
Thanks for weighing in; always enjoy hearing your thoughts Katie!
Good job! Jk. But seriously, this was great and gave me a lot to think about. I was wondering what your thoughts are on sticker charts to encourage a certain behavior. Our daughter doesn't eat much and we want her to eat more. When she eats more we've noticed she's less irritable and calmer. We recently implemented a sticker chart where she gets a sticker if she tries every food on her plate. She doesn't have to finish, just try it. It's been working really well, one week so far, and I do find myself praising her when she earns a sticker for trying each food on her plate. We don't want to do this forever but just wanted to get your thoughts on these reward strategies in the short term designed to encourage a certain action.
I just linked an article a few comments down that you might be interested in. Alfie Kohn is kind of intense but also... he's right. Still, do what you can while keeping his principles in mind.
Hi Mark, thx for your comment! I don't tend to get too wrapped up in ideologies, even if they're ones I mostly agree with. I think a reward strategy is fine in the short-term if it's encouraging a behavior that's difficult for the child and is also important. I will say that eating is SO fraught. Kids struggling with eating are often struggling in other ways (emotionally/relationally). We just finished an amazing book called Nourished all about this! You can page back and see some of the discussion in previous posts if you want. It really was an amazing book. Feeding kids is so hard, especially sensitive ones, and it was a book like no other, really getting to how intertwined eating is with relationship and attachment.
Great to hear from you.
I'm reminded here of the book Hunt Gather Parent, which discusses three traditional parenting cultures in different parts of the world. One thing about the book that really stuck out to me was the fact that in all three cultures, parents basically never praise their kids. Even when those kids actually do a chore really well or something, the parent basically says nothing.
I have largely failed at doing this myself, despite wanting to emulate those cultures. But I think about it a lot and hopefully it has helped me temper my needless over praising for normal behaviors.
Someone else here in the comments brought that book up as well! It's a good intro to some of this thinking for sure! Thx for reading Jim and for your comment
Excellent piece. Very thought provoking. I'm realizing my people pleasing ways. I always felt like nothing I did was ever good enough for my parents. I'm participating in an upcoming online conference on how to build your platform/sell books without social media.
Thank you! I too am realizing the depth of my people pleasing. There's a lot to excavate - the programming runs deep.
That conference sounds amazing! I'm still discerning how to go bsck - or if I will!
I've been saying this and thinking this for years, especially the social media usage. 😵😵😵
Yeah. I went off of Instagram after the retreat and it’s new layers of self-awareness🫠 I take regular breaks but this one has felt especially potent… awareness too of like what this is doing to us all… Glad you’re here x